Forum Freiheit-für-Marco.de

[Henning]

Hi,

thank you for visiting the forum. At the end of June some English-speaking media published articles raised the issue

http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,2144,2750314,00.html
http://news.independent.co.uk/europe/article2705318.ece
http://www.guardian.co.uk/germany/article/0,,2111531,00.html
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article1987673.ece
http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/0,1518,490525,00.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6240248.stm
http://www.oldhamadvertiser.co.uk/news/s/529590_nightmare_in_paradise

Unfortunately since then the supply of information about the case in British newspapers has finished.

However, the matter is far from over yet. Although time has passed the situation has remained unchanged and the boy has been in the Turkish pre-trial detention for over six months now. The extension is mainly due to the fact that the Turkish court hearings have been postponed for four times now because the Turkish lawyer of the English girl announced to present incriminating evidence but always failed to do so.

According to the Turkish criminal procedure rules the investigating judge decides if a suspect shall be released from jail after he has reviewed the evidence and reached a conclusion on the case. Thus, the presumption of innocence is modified in Turkey.

Charlotte´s testimony as the key witness is still missing and the Turkish judge insists on hearing her although one friend of Charlotte is reported to have exonerated Marco by claiming that Charlotte agreed with heavy petting and although according to an expert statement no sexual intercourse has taken place. As Charlotte refused a face-to-face sworn testimony deposition at the Turkish court the judge requested judicial assistance from the UK and asked that such interrogation would be carried out at a British court. Although Charlotte´s Turkish lawyer claimed in September that such examination already had taken place no hearing has been adjourned by the local competent court – the Oldham Magistrates Court – by October 1st.

[Google]

[Henning]

In order to provide the English speaking public with an overview of the current debate in Germany I would like to cross the language barrier and introduce you with the variety of opinions expressed in German internet online forums. In the following I translate some comments given in the online community of FAZ-net which is a respectable newspaper in Germany. If you wish to look up the original comments please check …

http://www.faz.net/s/Rub77CAECAE94D7431F9E...Ak~E102233.html
http://www.faz.net/s/Rub77CAECAE94D7431F9E...st~Abgn~E0.html

Why do I do that? - I believe that the British public have neglected the case so far although there is a sound reason to deal with it apart from the sufferings of the boy. The story is not only about an irresponsible mother who happens to live in England and the poor conditions of the Turkish justice system. I wonder if the British legal institutions are also partly to blame for what still happens. I wonder why the British legal institutions do not summon Charlotte in order to hear her testimony and set an end to this game of this family. In principle, Britain´s courts are obliged to respond to the rogatory letters issued by the Turkish court by bi-national agreements.

By showing a laissez-faire attitude in this case the British authorities do substantive damage to the reputation of their legal system. Everybody in Europe is well aware that recently the British government and citizens have beaten the big drum accusing other countries of their miserable judicial proceedings in the past repeatedly (e.g. regarding Russia´s refusal to approve the extradition demand of Andrej Lugowoi or the criticism regarding the investigations carried out by the police of Portugal in the case of Madeleine´s disappearance).

Now here are the comments. Thank you for your consideration.

Kersten Meier, dated Oct. 13
@ Emre Ertürk
- „Their gossip and propaganda is at yellow press standard.” – I agree with you in that point. However I would like to emphasize that the Turkish lawyer of the additional prosecuting victim is the only one who unlawfully quotes from real and invented case files and feeds the press.
- “Marco´s parents would be well advised to engage Turkish lawyers.” – You should be better informed. Mehmet Iplikcioglu, a criminal defense lawyer from Istanbul, has been engaged is collaborating with his German colleagues well.
“I agree absolutely with the decision of the court! The case is about a possible child abuse and no Punch and Judy show (Kasperletheater)!!!” – It seems a Punch and Judy show to me: Why did the Turkish court address their request for judicial assistance to the British court after their summer holidays and not before?
- “For many Germans kids from other countries seem not to have equal rights. I cannot explain to myself the release-Marco-immediately-hysteria in another way.“ – I agree, but a lot of people see Marco´s case from the humanistic and not so uch from the nationalistic point of view. This is the reason why he gets so much support from abroad.

Heinrich Tiessen, dated Oct. 08
Scandal
It is a scandal that no testimony of the allegedly raped girl could be presented by now. If someone is accused of having committed such a dangerous crime the victim should testify as soon as possible. It is a violation of the rule of law if someone is detained in prison and being deprived of his personal freedom just because proper evidence is missing. On these grounds the suspect and possible innocent could be held in prison for any time. Apart from that: Even in Germany Marco would have to face a trial. Why is he not released then?

Emre Ertürk, dated Oct. 08
A Correct Decision

The only thing I was wondering about was what the (Marco´s German) lawyers say. Their gossip and propaganda is at yellow press standard. It is significant that Marco´s German lawyers (four by last week !) accused themselves of lying. Now two of them have been fired. Marco´s parents would be well advised to engage Turkish lawyers. It is strange and inappropriate that German lawyers try to figure out Turkish law although (1.) they cannot speak the language and (2.) the laws are different than in Germany. I agree absolutely with the decision of the court! The case is about a possible child abuse and no Punch and Judy show (Kasperletheater)!!! For many Germans kids from other countries seem not to have equal rights. I cannot explain to myself the release-Marco-immediately-hysteria in another way.

Jürgen Schmidtmann, dated Oct. 08
Banana Republic of Turkey

Although these folks want to join the EU they afford a medieval legal system. If all Germans stopped making their holidays in Turkey for half a year the boy would be released immediately. I personally hope that Turkey will never join the EU.

Michael Meier, dated. Oct. 08
Rule of Law in Turkey ???

At the beginning of the proceedings one was still willing to understand the Turkish judges who showed no concessions due to perhaps nationalistic or even personal motivations. However, six months later the court still cannot present a testimony of the 13-year old girl but there is a testimony exonerating the suspect massively. (…) The Turkish justice demonstrating its independence is about to loose its face if it sets Marco free after such a long time. Apart from the sufferings incurred by Marco and his family this appears as the biggest psychological problem. The 13-year old girl and her mother deserve to be punished on the grounds of perjury at the criminal prosecutor´s office and put to jail.

Sylvia Bremer, dated Oct. 08
Populist and Political Affront

The court order (of the Turkish court dismissing a complaint against the order of Marco´s arrest) was issued without any statement of reasons and it is therefore a slap in the face of the EC-Commissioner competent for the enlargement of the EU who intervened yesterday. The reaction of the court in Antalya seems to be due to the increasing politicisation of the criminal procedure. The more on the one hand the public outrage increases and the more intensive Marco´s lawyers seek to achieve an ending to Marco´s pre trial detention with legal remedies by addressing the court´s problem of its diminishing latitude of judgement in regard to a continuance of Marco´s arrest on the other hand the more relentless and isolationist have the court´s decisions become. At any rate the ongoing with the case will be observed in Brussles with big attention. The British key witness would be well advised to travel to Antalya in order to testify at last. However, it is evident that the Turkish court does not show any noticeable interest in her evidence. From an humanistic point of view this is incomprehensible. This undeserving theatre can only be understood as an international festival of Germanic phobia and anti-German sentiments.

Emilia de la Cruche, dated Oct. 04
I Am Horrified …

- by the statements which some readers render here. Two things are for certain: 1. It is very probable that this is a case of child abuse. Therefore the authorities have to investigate it carefully ... 2. If the massive intervention by German politicians and parts of the press had not happened and Turkey had not been bashed for populist reasons the issue would have been resolved already.

Winfried Krause, dated Oct 03
Foolishness and Pride Share the Same Origin

Remember that there have been times when Germans have been very proud of their state and nation, too, and this pride did not serve the Germans well. Pride, arrogance, relentless misuse of power are attitudes which cause damage not only to other people but also to one self. Humanity, justice, wisdom, peaceableness and humaneness should be the main characteristics of those who exercise power over others. Pride, arrogance, relentless misuse of power are humanities greatest enemies.

Hermann Koch, dated Oct. 02
Dear Muttikan
@Muttikan
I agree with you that in Germany and probably in every European country such criminal offence would be treated in the same way. However if - as it was in the case here - a Turkish doctor discovers that the alleged rape has not taken place and if a young man testifies no other court in Europe would extend the issue for so long. The only one who uses this case to his personal advantage is the Turkish lawyer and unfortunately the Turkish court gave in to play his game. This is condemnable and has nothing to do with the rule of law.

Winfried Krause, dated Oct. 02
Eyes like Argus

One needs not to be very observant to discover unlawful behaviour and tactics and the resulting undue delay in this court proceedings. By now the traumatised victim has not testified in Antalya and a protocol of her interrogation in Manchester has not been published yet. It is certain however that the hospital doctor discovered on April 13 that there has been neither a rape nor sexual intercourse. Every other version is caused by rumours and defamatory statements spread by the counsel of the additional prosecuting plaintiff. A higher level of courts should take control over this scandal and end it.

Muttikan, dated Oct. 02
Carnival of Conceitedness

Some thought-provoking impulses: 1. The EU (Germany is part of it) observes the case argus-eyedly with close attention. The Turkish authorities know that their country must not loose its face and they are safely guarding this interest. For this reason, it is due to the German media and outraged comments in the internet that Marco´s case has become such a show trial. 2. One should not be tempted to overdraw the issue too much. If someone comes to Germany he has to comply with German law. If someone goes to Turkey he will be submitted to Turkish law. Apart from that, the legal situation in Germany is quite similar. Imagine the case that a Turkish citizen is accused in Germany of the abuse of a 13-year-old girl. He would be taken to prison in order to hinder him leaving the country. This would also applied in case of a juvenile delinquency. 3. One must not forget that upon the pressure of European countries Turkey has overhauled its criminal law including the protection of minors. I do not think it appropriate to accuse Turkey of a erratic oriental habits.

Winfried Krause, dated Oct. 02
It Is Not Astonishing …

that Turkey starts loosing friends in the world: Scam, lies and rabulistics may give way to a sentiment of hate against the offenders and the creation a solidarity with the mortified victims. The public must not tolerate anymore that Ömer Aycan always announces new evidence and thereby delays the criminal proceedings in his discretion. Levent Hekim discovered already on April 13 that neither a rape nor a sexual intercourse had happened. However, it was not until August 08 that he could testify in court. Furthermore, there was a juvenile witness who together with other youngsters shared the hotel room with the couple that night and exonerated the suspect from the accusation of rape. By demonstrating that it is on the side of injustice Turkey neither gains prestige nor friends internationally. Each state is judged by its exercise of power and the way it treats the defenceless. On October 12, the pre trial detention will have lasted for more than six months. Should the court continue playing the game of the unethical lawyer it will loose its credibility.
Hafis Aram, dated Oct. 02
Ignorance Is No Excuse

It is the under aged English girl who deserves the full protection of the law. If Marco is guilty of an abuse he will have to pay for it. I do not understand the hysteria in some comments here. Recently, German television has reported about a German citizen who was sentenced to a prison term although he is not guilty probably. Except for the TV station nobody was interested in his case. I think the whole excitement in this case here is ridiculous.

Karl-Heinz Andresen, dated Oct 01
We Should Not Forget ...

that the prosecution only began after the hysterical English parents of an early matured girl thought that it would be a great idea to make a report to the police against a silly boy who - carried away in his holiday mood - made a heavy petting. Under normal circumstances this ridiculous event would not have had legal consequences in Germany. It is obvious that in any other country and without the strong observance by the media this issue would have been resolved in the same way by the respective public prosecution office and the court. It is the girl´s stubborn English parents who lack insight, humanity and understanding and opposed such solution from the beginning although their daughter has not been demonstrably harmed. Furthermore, the international legal bureaucracy between Turkey and England is responsible for this situation because it has not managed to furnish some court files and – last but nor least – the observing public which gives way not only in Turkey for a certain touchiness.

[Mark]

...

[Henning]

The original comments in German are not anymore visible under the above mentioned URL:

http://www.faz.net/s/Rub77CAECAE94D7431F9E...Ak~E102233.html
http://www.faz.net/s/Rub77CAECAE94D7431F9E...st~Abgn~E0.html

The articles the discussions refer to date from the beginning of October and are easy to find. Please use the search function at faz.net (search word: Marco)

[Batzirob]

I fear that there is nobody really interested in the UK what will happen to Marco. (and Charlotte)
I haven't found any article relating to this court case in the british or european press (apart from german speaking countries)

It would be interesting to know what people from abroad think about this case.
_________________
Charlotte feiert Weihnachten in Antalya

[Henning]

As I have already mentioned above there has been a weak response in British media at the end of June.

[liberalerBürger]

Jailed Teen Is Cloud Over Turkey's E.U. Bid

By Craig Whitlock
Washington Post Foreign Service
Monday, December 10, 2007; Page A15

BERLIN -- Turkey's bid to become part of Europe has hit another hurdle, thanks to two teenagers who met at a Mediterranean beach resort this past spring.

The latest obstacle to Turkey's long attempt to join the European Union arose in April, when the mother of a 13-year-old British girl filed a complaint with Turkish police near the coastal city of Antalya. The woman alleged that her daughter had been sexually assaulted by another vacationing youth after a teenage beach fling had gotten out of hand.

Police arrested Marco Weiss, 17, a German high school student from the town of Uelzen, who had been spending a spring holiday at a resort with his parents. Although Weiss denied wrongdoing, court officials ordered him imprisoned without bail, saying he was a risk to flee the country before the investigation could be completed.

Since then, the skinny German teenager has remained locked up in a Turkish jail, sharing a cell at first with 30 other inmates, as his case has inched through the courts. His plight has become a cause celebre among sympathetic Germans, prompting angry demonstrations across the country and giving further ammunition to those who already opposed Turkey's campaign to join the 27-nation European Union.

"I can only shout out to the Turkish government: If you do not release the young man, Turkey's road to Europe is still miles away," Volker Kauder, a parliamentary leader for the ruling Christian Democrats, told reporters in June.

German Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier has demanded Weiss's release, calling his arrest "a tragic case that does not leave us unmoved." Other lawmakers have asked E.U. officials in charge of expansion talks with Turkey to intervene. The boy's attorneys have threatened to take up the matter with the European Court of Human Rights.

The criticism has upset Turkish officials, who say they were obliged to investigate the British mother's complaint. They also point out that the Turkish criminal code is almost identical to Germany's -- the result of efforts to modernize its legal system and make the country a more suitable candidate to join the E.U.

Meantime, Turkish diplomats in Brussels and Berlin have protested what they regard as improper political interference by German lawmakers. "We can't and don't want to intervene in the case," Ali Babacan, Turkey's top E.U. negotiator, told reporters, citing the independence of Turkey's justice system.

The Turkish courts have said, 'We are not a banana republic here and nobody can interfere with our judicial system,' " said Vural Oeger, a German member of the European Parliament who is of Turkish descent. "Every court in the Western world would act the same."

The controversy underscores the awkward, love-hate relationship between fast-growing Turkey, with its 71 million people, and Germany, which has a population of 82 million and is the European Union's biggest member.

The idea of allowing Turkey to become a full-fledged member of the union is anathema to many Germans, including Chancellor Angela Merkel, who has argued for giving Turkey a "privileged partnership" instead. About 3 million Turkish immigrants and citizens of Turkish descent live in Germany, but the country has had difficulty integrating the newcomers into German society. Turkish complaints of prejudice and discrimination are widespread.

Conversely, millions of Germans go to Turkey on vacation each year, particularly to its sparkling resorts along the Mediterranean. But Weiss's arrest has fanned fears and hardened impressions of the country.

"Most people identify with the family of the boy," said Eckart von Klaeden, a member of the German Parliament and foreign policy spokesman for the ruling Christian Democrats. "Imagine that you go on vacation and you have a wonderful holiday, but at the end your son is in jail and has the possibility of staying there for years. And of course, everyone knows the conditions in jails in Turkey are worse than in Germany."

Klaeden praised Turkey for adopting political and legal reforms in recent years. But he said it is still far from ready to join the European Union, citing its limited freedom of religion, persecution of minorities and lack of civilian control over the military, among other issues.

"The average people in Germany, they just see the trouble we have with Turkish immigrants in Germany, they see the Marco case, they hear about Catholic priests who are shot in Turkey," he said. "All in all, they say such a country cannot become a member of the European Union, because these are critical things that are so deep that it will be hard to change them in 10 to 15 years."

In addition, many Germans consider the accusations against Weiss overblown, despite the age of the British girl. Weiss has admitted the pair were sexually intimate but denied engaging in intercourse.

"I was shocked when the police told me she's only 13," he told the Bild newspaper in a jailhouse interview. "If I had known she's 13, I wouldn't have gone that far. I'm not a criminal."

Der Spiegel, Germany's leading news magazine, declared Weiss guilty of nothing more than "alleged heavy petting." It chastised Turkish police for making a criminal case out of "holiday hanky-panky among teenagers." Other German media have put the blame on the girl and her mother, with television crews staking out the teenager on her way to school near Manchester. The case has received little news media attention in Britain.

The next hearing is scheduled for Friday. One reason for the delay is that Turkish police were unable to obtain a full statement from the British girl until October, six months after her mother filed the complaint.

"The case is dragging on and on, with no end in sight, and that is what is so outrageous," said Monika Frommel, a criminology professor at the University of Kiel. She said there was no need to jail Weiss while the investigation proceeded, adding that the charges should have been dropped after he testified that he thought the girl was older.

"This is incompatible with the European judicial culture," Frommel said. "The court appears to be acting out of legal tradition, not acting by the current law. However, not many people in Turkey seem to be upset about this."

Special correspondent Shannon Smiley contributed to this report.

[Karbri]

http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,523458,00.html

[Henning]

Oldham Advertiser: ‘Look to your heart' please, dated Nov. 7, 2007
http://www.oldhamadvertiser.co.uk/news/s/1023302_look_to_your_heart_plea

Oldham Advertiser: German boy home for Christmas, dated Dec. 19/2007
http://www.oldhamadvertiser.co.uk/news/s/1028929_german_boy_home_for_christmas